Officer Active Duty Service Obligations MICCC Does attending CL-3 extend my ADSO?
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Officer Active Duty Service Obligations MICCC Does attending CL-3 extend my ADSO?

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Posted by

u/roguesorrytick

5 months ago

Captain’s Career Course ADSO – Additional Time or Concurrent?

Hey all so I’m going to be heading to CCC in about 8-12 months and still have 2 1/2 years left of time owed, so I’ll still have more than a year after, does that mean I’ll owe 2 years or the 1 and be done? Not sure how it all works, thanks for help and info

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level 1

jeebus_t_god

11 points · 5 months ago

Hey all so I’m going to be a captain soon but I somehow still have no fucking idea how to read a regulation

That’s what you might as well have written. You sound like every other private coming on here asking shit like this.

level 2

Sonoshitthereiwas

3 points · 5 months ago

To be fair, they’re a LT and their reading comprehension ain’t so good.

level 2

TopSecretSpy

Cyber MI0 points · 5 months ago · edited 5 months ago

FWIW, while you can attend CCC as a 1LT, you're more likely to be a CPT when attending, since it's (usually) a requirement to pin MAJ. Hell, when I went, there was a MAJ in the course. So, in actuality, your "so I’m going to be a captain soon" comment was very likely too kind.

level 3

BoochBeam

1 point · 5 months ago

The fuck are you talking about? There’s only 1LTs and CPTs in CCC for active duty.

level 4

TopSecretSpy

Cyber MI1 point · 5 months ago

Incorrect. It’s rare, but it does happen. Certain branches are more likely than others (for example, it’s not even rare among Chaplains from what I hear), and it’s more common in Reserve/Guard, but again, even on Active Duty it does sometimes occur.

Like I said, I went with a Major in my class; he pinned on via an ed waiver a few months beforehand because he was deployed for roughly 3 years before the board met and wasn’t able to get to the course on time. Regulation permits that, but I think it requires O-8 approval. This particular example was from Huachuca back in 2013.

level 5

BoochBeam

1 point · 5 months ago

You’re really going to try to pull Chaplains are your example? If your proof hinges upon a non traditional branch then you’re just arguing a red herring. I’m referring to the 16 normal branches.

3 year deployment? Okay, guy.

level 6

TopSecretSpy

Cyber MI1 point · 5 months ago

See again: This happened at Huachuca. That's not Chaplains, that's MI. Apparently reading comprehension is being a bit of a challenge for you at the moment. You're wrong, and now you're just butthurt.

level 7

BoochBeam

0 points · 5 months ago

Not really. You’re still arguing the exception to the rule.

level 8

TopSecretSpy

Cyber MI1 point · 5 months ago

It was *always* the exception. That's why there's regulatory guidance for it *as* an exception. I never said it wasn't, nor did I ever imply it was anything more than an odd but occasional thing. You are the one who decided to utter "There’s only 1LTs and CPTs in CCC for active duty," which is simply wrong.

level 9

BoochBeam

0 points · 5 months ago

Because it’s true. Just because a rule allows an ETP or waiver doesn’t mean it’s not a rule. I’m not going to start telling E4s they don’t need BLC because I knew a guys friend in another unit who got waived. The exception doesn’t disprove the rule.

level 10

TopSecretSpy

Cyber MI1 point · 5 months ago · edited 5 months ago

Ok, you're incredibly dense. I feel sorry for anyone who has to deal with that obstinance, especially if they're stuck as your subordinate.

Look, I don't think we disagree about the nature of a rule, or of an exception to it. Or for that matter about the value and merit of said rule. But that was always the side issue.

We disagree about a claimed statement of fact on your part — specifically, whether people attend CCC as Majors.

In saying that doesn't happen, you said something that is simply not factual, and you keep trying to dance around that, but all the pirouettes in the world do not recover a false statement. First you tried to narrow it to Active Duty, but that's still wrong. Then you tried to divert over excluding non-traditional branches, but that's also still wrong.

Then you tried to mince over the nature of a rule, which I grant at least isn't wrong but is still a diversion from admitting your previous state of being (repeatedly) wrong. There's a difference between "class X is a requirement of status Y" and "you can't have someone at class X who already achieved status Y." You shifted the goalposts, plain and simple, but I called you out on it because at its root the statement that Majors do not attend CCC (with or without your later modifiers) is still false. It's not my fault that you decided to respond to me with falsehoods, or that you lack the integrity to admit it.

Continue this thread 
level 1

bmatthe3

8 points · 5 months ago

All military schooling ADSOs are served concurrently

Source: AR 350-100.

level 2

roguesorrytick

Original Poster1 point · 5 months ago

Thanks

level 1

Mike40hands

2 points · 5 months ago

Your orders for CCC will literally tell you that you incur a 1-year ADSO for PCSing to CCC. As far as what you owe total, check your initial set of orders you got from Ft. Knox after college to make sure you don’t actually have a 6-7 year total ADSO, because they’ll totally let you believe that even if you only had 3 total.

You then incur another ADSO for PCSing to your follow on assignment. If you didn’t have a 7 year total ADSO, that’s how they keep you from dropping a REFRAD out of the schoolhouse mid-course.

Another note; if you do want out by the time you’re eligible to REFRAD, you have to actually drop a packet. I’m not trying to insult your intelligence, but you don’t just sit back and count down the days until your ETS date on your ORB finally arrives. You, like many other of us will experience the glee of a BN command team watching you suffer as they tell you that you still can’t leave. When you’re approximately 13-14 months away from your ETS, talk to your CO/BC and drop your REFRAD packet on their desk to be submitted at 12 months out. That’s how you get out; UQRs are usually not a pleasant process and rarely do they work for people getting out on a high note (usually reserved for fuck-up officers that BCs or BCT CDRs can’t wait to kick out, but don’t have enough evidence to substantiate UCMJ).

TL;DR: it’s concurrent; every time you PCS as an officer, you owe another year at a minimum. If you PCS’d at the end of your contract, then it would add an additional year. Also, drop your REFRAD packet 13-14 months before your ETS so you get it in on time. Tell nobody at your new unit that you’re getting out, or say hello to your new permanent job in the 3-shop as a battle captain or training officer.

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r/

army

Posts

0

Posted by

u/roguesorrytick

5 months ago

Captain’s Career Course ADSO – Additional Time or Concurrent?

Hey all so I’m going to be heading to CCC in about 8-12 months and still have 2 1/2 years left of time owed, so I’ll still have more than a year after, does that mean I’ll owe 2 years or the 1 and be done? Not sure how it all works, thanks for help and info

21 comments

25% Upvoted
What are your thoughts? Log in or Sign up log in sign up
Sort by

level 1

jeebus_t_god

11 points · 5 months ago

Hey all so I’m going to be a captain soon but I somehow still have no fucking idea how to read a regulation

That’s what you might as well have written. You sound like every other private coming on here asking shit like this.

level 2

Sonoshitthereiwas

3 points · 5 months ago

To be fair, they’re a LT and their reading comprehension ain’t so good.

level 2

TopSecretSpy

Cyber MI0 points · 5 months ago · edited 5 months ago

FWIW, while you can attend CCC as a 1LT, you're more likely to be a CPT when attending, since it's (usually) a requirement to pin MAJ. Hell, when I went, there was a MAJ in the course. So, in actuality, your "so I’m going to be a captain soon" comment was very likely too kind.

level 3

BoochBeam

1 point · 5 months ago

The fuck are you talking about? There’s only 1LTs and CPTs in CCC for active duty.

level 4

TopSecretSpy

Cyber MI1 point · 5 months ago

Incorrect. It’s rare, but it does happen. Certain branches are more likely than others (for example, it’s not even rare among Chaplains from what I hear), and it’s more common in Reserve/Guard, but again, even on Active Duty it does sometimes occur.

Like I said, I went with a Major in my class; he pinned on via an ed waiver a few months beforehand because he was deployed for roughly 3 years before the board met and wasn’t able to get to the course on time. Regulation permits that, but I think it requires O-8 approval. This particular example was from Huachuca back in 2013.

level 5

BoochBeam

1 point · 5 months ago

You’re really going to try to pull Chaplains are your example? If your proof hinges upon a non traditional branch then you’re just arguing a red herring. I’m referring to the 16 normal branches.

3 year deployment? Okay, guy.

level 6

TopSecretSpy

Cyber MI1 point · 5 months ago

See again: This happened at Huachuca. That's not Chaplains, that's MI. Apparently reading comprehension is being a bit of a challenge for you at the moment. You're wrong, and now you're just butthurt.

level 7

BoochBeam

0 points · 5 months ago

Not really. You’re still arguing the exception to the rule.

level 8

TopSecretSpy

Cyber MI1 point · 5 months ago

It was *always* the exception. That's why there's regulatory guidance for it *as* an exception. I never said it wasn't, nor did I ever imply it was anything more than an odd but occasional thing. You are the one who decided to utter "There’s only 1LTs and CPTs in CCC for active duty," which is simply wrong.

level 9

BoochBeam

0 points · 5 months ago

Because it’s true. Just because a rule allows an ETP or waiver doesn’t mean it’s not a rule. I’m not going to start telling E4s they don’t need BLC because I knew a guys friend in another unit who got waived. The exception doesn’t disprove the rule.

level 10

TopSecretSpy

Cyber MI1 point · 5 months ago · edited 5 months ago

Ok, you're incredibly dense. I feel sorry for anyone who has to deal with that obstinance, especially if they're stuck as your subordinate.

Look, I don't think we disagree about the nature of a rule, or of an exception to it. Or for that matter about the value and merit of said rule. But that was always the side issue.

We disagree about a claimed statement of fact on your part — specifically, whether people attend CCC as Majors.

In saying that doesn't happen, you said something that is simply not factual, and you keep trying to dance around that, but all the pirouettes in the world do not recover a false statement. First you tried to narrow it to Active Duty, but that's still wrong. Then you tried to divert over excluding non-traditional branches, but that's also still wrong.

Then you tried to mince over the nature of a rule, which I grant at least isn't wrong but is still a diversion from admitting your previous state of being (repeatedly) wrong. There's a difference between "class X is a requirement of status Y" and "you can't have someone at class X who already achieved status Y." You shifted the goalposts, plain and simple, but I called you out on it because at its root the statement that Majors do not attend CCC (with or without your later modifiers) is still false. It's not my fault that you decided to respond to me with falsehoods, or that you lack the integrity to admit it.

Continue this thread 
level 1

bmatthe3

8 points · 5 months ago

All military schooling ADSOs are served concurrently

Source: AR 350-100.

level 2

roguesorrytick

Original Poster1 point · 5 months ago

Thanks

level 1

Mike40hands

2 points · 5 months ago

Your orders for CCC will literally tell you that you incur a 1-year ADSO for PCSing to CCC. As far as what you owe total, check your initial set of orders you got from Ft. Knox after college to make sure you don’t actually have a 6-7 year total ADSO, because they’ll totally let you believe that even if you only had 3 total.

You then incur another ADSO for PCSing to your follow on assignment. If you didn’t have a 7 year total ADSO, that’s how they keep you from dropping a REFRAD out of the schoolhouse mid-course.

Another note; if you do want out by the time you’re eligible to REFRAD, you have to actually drop a packet. I’m not trying to insult your intelligence, but you don’t just sit back and count down the days until your ETS date on your ORB finally arrives. You, like many other of us will experience the glee of a BN command team watching you suffer as they tell you that you still can’t leave. When you’re approximately 13-14 months away from your ETS, talk to your CO/BC and drop your REFRAD packet on their desk to be submitted at 12 months out. That’s how you get out; UQRs are usually not a pleasant process and rarely do they work for people getting out on a high note (usually reserved for fuck-up officers that BCs or BCT CDRs can’t wait to kick out, but don’t have enough evidence to substantiate UCMJ).

TL;DR: it’s concurrent; every time you PCS as an officer, you owe another year at a minimum. If you PCS’d at the end of your contract, then it would add an additional year. Also, drop your REFRAD packet 13-14 months before your ETS so you get it in on time. Tell nobody at your new unit that you’re getting out, or say hello to your new permanent job in the 3-shop as a battle captain or training officer.

Community Details

r/army

79.0k

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For all of your joining and reclassing needs.
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Go ahead; they may buy you lunch.
Wednesday Advice Thread
For the more advanced questions.
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For all your duty station needs.
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Like the WFFA but always on.
r/army Rules
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No bigoted language or witch-hunting.
2.
Keep discussions civil. No Posting PII.
3.
No unapproved AMAs, fundraisers, ads or surveys.
4.
Do not ask or provide answers for courses/tests.
5.
No fraudulent, illegal, or immoral activity.
6.
No overtly political posts.
7.
Moderators have the Final Say.
Posting Guidelines

• (1) If your post could be answered by your NCO, Google or a 5 minute call with an Army Recruiter, then please do so.

• (2) Ensure your posts actually encourage discussion. No memes, low effort posts, reposts or crossposts from /r/all . If it is appropriate for /r/AdviceAnimals or any other meme or image macro subreddit, it is not appropriate for /r/army . Consider /r/armycirclejerk instead.

• (3) This is not a pro-military circlejerk, but please have some sources to base the more controversial topics on.

• (4) Use the search bar. It is very likely that whatever you are about to post has already been posted before. This includes questions about duty stations, MOSs, boots, or what to take to the field.

• (5) We don’t all know what a 12V or a 35Q or a 94L is. Post the description along with your obscure MOS code.

• (6) Please keep your flair text rank or duty-related. The purpose of flair is so we know you have a background in a particular subject matter. Moderators reserve the right to change flair at will.

• (7) Source your posts well. No rumors, PNN or unfounded speculation. Links from USAWTFM, ASMDSS and similar at moderator discretion. No Stolen Valor.

• (8) N00b questions go in the Weekly Question Thread (or Recruiter Thread) stickied at the top, in the black-on-gold link at the top, and in the sidebar. Do not answer n00b questions on the main boards. Use the report button.

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MICCC Fort Huachuca

MI Captain’s Career Course at Fort Huachuca

The Military Intelligence Captain’s Career (MICCC) course on Fort Huachuca is a 20 week long course which falls under the direction and guidance of USAIC (US Army Intelligence Center). Currently the MICCC is run by the 304th Military Intelligence Battalion, which falls under the 111th MI Brigade which is a TRADOC (Training & Doctrine Command) unit.

MICCC Attendance Requirements

Career Military Intelligence Army officers will at some point be required to attend the MICCC while either a First Lieutenant promotable (1LT P) or as a Junior Captain (CPT). Attendance at the MICCC is usually completed prior to Company Command, although occasionally officers will go to the school as a senior Captain. The Career Course functions much like the MIBOLC (MI Basic Officer Leader’s Course), another one of the core Fort Huachuca MI Schools , which is required to be branch qualified at that rank. The MICCC like other Captain career courses, includes training specific to an officer’s branch. MI officers are expected to perform tasks ranging from intelligence preparation of the battlespace (IPB) to war-gaming and implementing MDMP (the Military Decision Making Process).

Is the Career Course a PCS (Permanent Change of Station) Move or TDY?

Currently Active Duty MI Captains are required to PCS to Fort Huachuca for the duration of the 5.5 month assignment. Because the career course is a PCS move and the officer will only draw BAH for Fort Huachuca (only one location), some students will bring their family, while others decide to rent one of our Furnished Apartments in Sierra Vista for 6 months, or officers attending the course may choose to stay in one of our Furnished TDY Housing rentals with classmates.  If you’re unsure whether your assignment is a PCS or a TDY, be sure to check out our PCS Move Entitlements & Benefits page for additional information on short term travel and permanent re-assignments.

Active Duty Service Obligation – ADSO for the MICCC

The MICCC is like most Army schools in that because it requires a PCS move, there is an Active Duty Service Obligation. AR 350–100 specifically states: “officers who complete certain formal education or training programs, undergo a PCS, or certain promotions incur an ADSO.” Current Captains Career Course requirements are a one year ADSO post graduation, which can be served concurrently with a PCS move to another military installation. Certain Joint positions (for example CENTCOM or SOCOM, or an Air Force or Navy assignment) may or may not incur an additional service obligation.  All MI branched officers can generally expect to be assigned to either a maneuver battalion, company command, or a staff position upon completion of the career course and any additional schooling.

Military Intel Officer Assignments post-MICCC

CONUS and OCONUS assignments after the Captain’s Career Course are levied by the Intelligence, Surveillance, & Reconnaissance (ISR) Branch Manager at PERSCOM and are based on an OML (order of merit list) as determined by the course evaluation, past performance, and personal preferences of the officer.  MICCC graduates can expect to be sent to a key developmental (KD) assignments including a Battalion S2, MICO Command, BCT A/S2 or S2X/electronic attack officer, ACE (Analysis and control element officer), a Collection manager/targeting officer/watch officer, a training or support Company or detachment command, JRTC or NTC or a CTC observer/controller (OC), MI transition team advisor in a combat situation (either foreign nation TT), Developmental branch specific assignments will provide captains with exposure to the Army and in some cases, to JIIM organizations.

Reserve MI Captain’s Career Course – RC-MICCC

The Reserve MICCC at Fort Huachuca for National Guard and Reserve personnel is generally a TDY assignment lasting about a month long. The Army Intelligence Knowledge Network (IKN) Portal offers several distance learning courses as a pre-requisite for the MICCC. The RC-MICCC completion certificates do not offer any Army correspondence course credit for retirement points.

The RC-MICCC is broken down into four phases. Currently Phases I and III are long Distance Learning through the IKN portal, and Phases II and IV are resident courses requiring TDY travel which last 2 weeks each at Fort Huachuca. If traveling to the Reserve Component MICCC and requiring a furnished rental, be sure to check out all of our rentals which currently rent at GSA Per Diem Rates .

Military Intel Areas of Concentration (AOC) under ISR Branch

All of the following areas of concentration are offered through the Fort Huachuca Schools operated by UASAIC under the guidance of TRADOC (Training and Doctrine Command). The following schools can generally be taken either before or after the MICCC provided that the follow on assignment necessitates the additional skills identifier (ASI) and training.

CI 35E-counter intelligence
HUMINT 35F-human intelligence
IMINT 35C-imagery intelligence
MASINT 35D (all source) -measurement and signature intelligence
OSINT 35D (all source) -open-source intelligence
SIGINT 35G-signal intelligence

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